BTKGF
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Post by BTKGF on Oct 9, 2007 8:42:31 GMT -5
I belive yes it was.
Why is an apple an apple.
Because we call it an apple.
Why is the moon the moon and not a satalite?
Because we call it the moon.
Hence if it is widly accepted that it was a planet and called that by the majority of the world then it was a planet.
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Post by M.Madison on Oct 9, 2007 16:27:29 GMT -5
well what we "call" something doesn't necessarily make that thing what we called it..meaning our language isn't the end all say all of things. The reason why we thought Pluto was a planet before is because we couldn't accurately measure it's size and orbit around the sun. Now that we can somewhat measure this, we have discovered, number one, that Pluto isn't big enough/doesn't have the right make up, to be classified a planet and, number two, it's orbit intersects another orbit making it a satellite (such as a moon is considered a satellite) of another astral body. This is one of the things that I like about science. They are willing to correct mistakes, keep investigating and discover more. The classifications here are all in the measurement semantics, the little details. It's like at one time we thought the duck bill platypus was an otter and duck cross breed which isn't true, But none the less I'm sure there's quite a few out there that still believe that.
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BTKGF
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Posts: 453
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Post by BTKGF on Oct 10, 2007 3:39:30 GMT -5
So what you are saying a horse is a cat? It is a planet as that is what we called it. same way as fruit is fruit. Or vegetables are vegetables. Tomatoes for instance are they a fruit or vegetable. They are a fruit that is considered a vegetable.
Yes it corrects the mistakes. But The phrase it will do till I am proved wrong is a scientific quote.
This may look off topic but I will get to the point soon.
What makes having a relationship with a family member wrong. popular belief. What made Columbus wrong till he was prove right. popular belief.
So Even though in the grand sceam of things we may be wrong we are right till we are prove wrong and it is accepted.
So I am not arguing that Pluto was not a planet but what defines right and wrong. Does everyone believing Black is white make black white?
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Dragon Slayer
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Post by Dragon Slayer on Oct 10, 2007 4:39:22 GMT -5
Crap i dont know what to say but i want a debate cookie (ill Try)
Pluto Was Never A Planet And Why Would It Be, We Already Know That Its Not And Just Cause We Say Its Something Doesnt Make It That or else nobody would understand the language (lets go to the Phone Book , Oh Ya That Would Be Fun) You Can Obviously see Whats Wrong With That Conversation
(WOW i think i might have pulled it off but its a long shot)
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BTKGF
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Posts: 453
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Post by BTKGF on Oct 10, 2007 4:59:08 GMT -5
But how do we know they have not made another mistake in declairing that Pluto was not a planet.
You accept what they say as fact but the dismiss what they had said.
If they turn around in 50 - 100 years time and say wooppse it actualy is a planet....
Schrodinger's cat all the way man. Till we actualy see it up close and personal we will not know.
All I am saying is that we are accepting what the scientists are saying when they are saying Pluto is not a planet. But what makes them any more right than when they said it was a planet? They have an equile chance of being wrong again do they not?
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BTKGF
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Post by BTKGF on Oct 10, 2007 5:15:37 GMT -5
Similar theam of what we believe and are told and what is true.
Is there a God?
I believe there is. Am I right?
Millions say yes. Millions say no.
Definitivly am I correct? No answer other than Yes or no will be accepted.
If we are going by previous arguments it would have to be no. for as to be right God would have to never be proven to not exist in the form I believe him/her to exist.
At this moment in time am I correct? I belive yes...It is up to you as to if you agree with me or not.
Same with a planet. Because all the scientists now agree that Pluto is not a planet are they correct? No as for them to be correct then it can never be proven otherwise.
My argument boils down to:
If there is mass agreement does it make something correct? Yes as it is accepted.
Another example... What year is it? 2007. Am I right in saying it is 2001. Answer is yes. in Ethiopia it is as their calander is 6 years back from ours. Who is corect? us, them, neither?
I am not arguing that it is a planet. It is accepted that it is not. I am arguing that it was accepted as a planet and thus was a planet.
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Post by M.Madison on Oct 10, 2007 8:03:26 GMT -5
well ok, perhaps at ONE time Pluto may have been a planet, but the Pluto debate is a scientific one..the "god" debate is a philosophical one. Your talking about the difference between an apple and a tomato.
By the way, the tomato is another thing that "changed" over the years. At one point we thought it was poisonous, next we thought it was a veggie and now we think it's a fruit that's good to eat.
Science is a fluid thing, it changes as we discover more...wether or not we are wrong about what we thought before. Science is always the product of observation and can be proven at that time. (even though later on we may get more tools to observe better)
Philosophy is again based on observation BUT it is something that's a belief, or an assumed ideal that may or may not be proven yet.
These two are both interlinked yes, like the tomato and the apple can both be red and both are fruit, but they are two different things that grow in two very different ways.
I have to wonder though...is this a debate about "status" like, "poor Pluto, it lost it's planet status" ...let's be honest with ourselves here, Pluto is a natural inanimate object, that's neutral, it doesn't care what WE call it. It is what it is...an astral body worthy of our observation and attention.
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BTKGF
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Post by BTKGF on Oct 10, 2007 9:28:04 GMT -5
Precisely what I was saying. We are right till proven wrong. Therefore Pluto was a planet. And you have come to say yes to the original question "Was Pluto ever a planet?"
As for the inanimate objects not having feelings, I do not agree as we have a printer here that only likes me to fix it. it will keep breaking till I come up and fix it. Even if the person before who fixed it does the exact same thing I did.
Also in my final year in college I had a project due in 3 days and it was not working. I broke down in tears in front of the computer. My Mum said I should sleep. I did and the next day got up and ran the program and it worked with no changes. The computer was not turned off and nothing had changed. It just took pity on me.
You see it is only the people who discuss it that change in a Philosophical discussion compared to a scientific discussion.
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Post by M.Madison on Oct 10, 2007 11:49:56 GMT -5
I've had electronic equipment like that The phenomenon is the oddest things I think. But don't we really know better? Perhaps we have another philosophical debate here lol
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Dragon Slayer
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Post by Dragon Slayer on Oct 10, 2007 13:32:58 GMT -5
. You accept what they say as fact but the dismiss what they had said. If they turn around in 50 - 100 years time and say wooppse it actualy is a planet.... but until they do this is over NOW GIMME A COOKIE
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Dragon Slayer
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Quest Status: Currently Hunting A Dragon
Posts: 266
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Post by Dragon Slayer on Oct 10, 2007 13:33:47 GMT -5
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Post by M.Madison on Oct 10, 2007 17:10:24 GMT -5
Are you the one who's spamming the shout board ...hmm hmmm?
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Dragon Slayer
oziez's blog mod
Quest Status: Currently Hunting A Dragon
Posts: 266
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Post by Dragon Slayer on Oct 10, 2007 18:03:52 GMT -5
spam is a kind of meat to me MMMM
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BTKGF
btkgf blog
Yeeeeeeeessssss?
Posts: 453
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Post by BTKGF on Oct 11, 2007 3:41:31 GMT -5
. You accept what they say as fact but the dismiss what they had said. If they turn around in 50 - 100 years time and say wooppse it actualy is a planet.... but until they do this is over NOW GIMME A COOKIE Make a realy good point and you can have a cookie. It is not an untill the do argument. it is an if they do. for if they ever do change their minds it will mean that pluto is a planet but they were just wrong. However if you accept that now they say one thing and it is true till they risind that, then Pluto was a planet till they said otherwise.
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Post by M.Madison on Oct 11, 2007 8:05:45 GMT -5
There's no arguments here on my behalf.. But, most everybody else says "How can something be something that it never actually was?" *shrugs* I don't care either way, I'm a go with the flow kinda person with these kinds of things. btkgf, you got the cookie yesterday (10 karma points, and just for the record, I won't give myself the cookie )
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